Talk:Anatolian Shepherd

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Which image to use in breed box?[edit]

I put the sketch of the dog in the breed box because there's no person in the picture, BUT (1) it's not a very large picture, and increasing its size makes it jagged and ugly, and (2) if you look at its copyright status, it says it's PD but it doesn't state the source (and it's a user who contributed only this image), so I'm guessing that its copyright status is really up in the air. Should I put the dog+person photo as the main photo? Elf | Talk 23:44, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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A note on sources[edit]

I have added a book Turkish kangal (Karabash) shepherd dog[1] by Turkish Associate Professor Dr Orhan Yilmaz, the book was found on researchgate and looks like it may be self published. The author is very well published in the field of Turkish domestic animal breeds including dogs [1] so I assess it is acceptable for use under WP:RSSELF as "produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications". Cavalryman (talk) 05:00, 30 October 2020 (UTC).

References

  1. ^ Yilmaz, Orhan (2007). Turkish kangal (Karabash) shepherd dog (PDF). Ankara: Impress Printing Comp. pp. 11–12.

Kangal vs Anatolian Shepherd[edit]

Discussion moved to Talk:Kangal Shepherd Dog#Kangal vs Anatolian Shepherd. Cavalryman (talk) 05:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC)Clearly consolidating the discussion was not popular. Cavalryman (talk) 22:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC). Hello Neolir, reliable, secondary sources exist stating the Anatolian Shepherd and the Kangal are distinct (whilst acknowledging they are very closely related), these sources state the Turkish Kennel Club refuses to recognise American Anatolian Shepherds as Kangals, and further the Kennel Club in the UK recognises both breeds separately, an acknowledgment of this fact. Do you have any sources to substantiate your repeated reversions of reliably sourced information? Cavalryman (talk) 22:23, 15 November 2020 (UTC).

Further, I suggest you review the source discussed directly above this thread (Turkish kangal (Karabash) shepherd dog). It has a very informative section on pages 11-12:
Does any dog breed titled as the Anatolian Shepherd Dog exist?

As it is seen above, there is no such 'breed' titled as the Anatolian Shepherd Dog among the purebred dogs of Turkey, not in name, not in concept, and not in reality. However, the flock guardian breed so called as the Anatolian Shepherd Dog is well-known across the world. Despite the name of Anatolian Shepherd Dog is used by some countries mostly the United Kingdom and the USA, in my humble opinion the purebred dog called as the Anatolian Shepherd Dog does not exist. Excluding the purebred ones above, all the flock guardian dogs seen throughout Anatolia known and called as the Anatolian Shepherd Dogs by their owners and breeders in foreign countries consist, as a matter of fact, of such a population created by mating of the purebred, the real Kangal Dog with some other breeds freely because the mating technique under control, namely breeding on a pedigreed basis is not applied in villages. This matter can better be seen in the photographs in further pages.

Today majority of these mixed and wandering dogs lives independently in villages, town and even cities in Turkey. Bitches can mate easily and freely with one or more than of these male dogs during their rut periods. These mating male dogs may not always be the Kangal Dogs but various breeds, mongrel and even pariah dogs. As a result, number of dogs as if resembling the Kangal Dog is seen around but it will be clearly understood that they are not the purebred Kangal Dogs if they are seriously scrutinized.

We may denominate these dogs as the Anatolian Shepherd Dogs although they have no breed features since they are not purebred. With their exterior appearance they resemble the Kangal Dog when seen from far but they have not a structure as large as the Kangal Dog. Moreover, neither they have a body shape as a lion, eyes and muzzle edged and particularly in tail with black mask, and ears as if adhered to his/her skull nor a tail hanging low with a slightly upward and forward curl. Resemblance with the Kangal Dogs relates only the colour of their coats despite it exhibits various colours. Piebald colours are very often seen. Their features of temperament and characters are not as good as the Kangal Dog*.

*My advice to those who would like to purchase the real, purebred Kangal Dog among the ones being sold in Turkey as the Kangal Dogs of which we can only denominate them as the Anatolian Shepherd Dogs will be the information given in this book that they must read carefully and give their attention to because at least 70-80% of the dogs brought to me for examination by the owners who would like to know whether or not their dogs were the purebred Kangal was, unfortunately, the pariah dogs as explained above.[1]
Regards, Cavalryman (talk) 22:55, 15 November 2020 (UTC).

References

  1. ^ Yilmaz, Orhan (2007). Turkish kangal (Karabash) shepherd dog (PDF). Ankara: Impress Printing Comp. pp. 11–12.
"Anatolian Shepherd" is the original international name recognized by kennel clubs. "Kangal" is the district in Sivas Province, Central Anatolia Region, where they are bred. Both names actually refer to the same dog, which is native to Turkey (no kennel club in the world doubts this fact). If you keep removing references and spreading false information (which is a form of vandalism) I will report you to the Administrators. Neolir (talk) 14:15, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Similar to "Alaskan Brown Bear" and "Kodiak Bear", which are actually the same animal. Neolir (talk) 14:18, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Neolir, do you have any contemporary WP:Reliable sources articulating this? The AKC is not a reliable secondary source, they are a primary source only reliable for their own activities and views. Have you reviewed the above from a respected and very well published Turkish authority? Cavalryman (talk) 22:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC).
Neolir, you still have not responded to the above, do you have any contemporary reliable sources that contradict what I added to this page? Blinding reverting then refusing to offer any policy based explanation is not how we improve the encyclopedia.
Further, you proposed the merger between this article and the Kangal article, the discussion is occurring here, your input is requested as I am not sure what you are proposing. Regards, Cavalryman (talk) 04:13, 19 November 2020 (UTC).

88.244.93.177 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), I presume you are also Neolir, as already said above, can you provide reliable sources to back up your assertions? As far as I can tell, no one in Turkey accepts these dogs as a Turkish breed, only a crossbreed of local breeds. And the sources reflect this. Further, WP:CANVASsing, which you did here, is taken very seriously on Wikipedia, please do not do so again. Cavalryman (talk) 02:46, 29 November 2020 (UTC).